tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN May 23, 2014 10:00pm-12:01am EDT
the relationship between the former chancellor with mr. vladimir putin in his capacity. in this includes a pipeline company. and this having sort of a imperial phantom pain or conflict, and let's not intervened with the ukraine. so you can go back and the russians do rhetorically go 300 years back saying that our country is still smarting from the diffuse of this in the 18th century, including the partition of poland.
and it's no wonder that they are trying to fight this war and use the ukrainians as a battering ram and activists as fodder against russia. this is essentially the repeat of the moscow talking points and there are people who are willing to repeat these talking points, unfortunately. for the u.s. is obligated. first we have the first post your presidency. i don't think mr. obama has any particular affinity or warm place in
and so the u.s. is now deliberating whether the first wave of sanctions is primarily personal, if they are sufficient, the fact that moscow did not invade, someone saying that this is a great achievement of the u.s. and european policy and yes, angela merkel did intervene in this language and she understands german. and she speaks russian and the fact that this is a plus. however as i mentioned before, the whole new toolbox, the whole
new pattern of engagement that includes propaganda and economic pressure, and includes the price of gas for the ukraine now after the viktor yanukovich and glamour to the agreement, the price was in the 270 ridge notes for 86. the highest in europe for natural gas. and when we give money to the ukraine, the imf deal out in the european bailout, that is a good chunk of this money that will go to the treasury in moscow to pay for that. it kind of perverse way of doing business here. and so must we send a very strong message and have a policy commitment that goes beyond this, the ukraine is only the first stage in this
reconfiguration of the power balance in europe and also in the world and what happened in terms of the post-cold war arrangement and even post-world war ii arrangement, one the protection, or people who speak the same language or come from the same ethnic stock as you, sure it is permissible as a reason to intervene military wise. what if china decides that the same approach can apply to taiwan or two other places where overseas chinese live? would not allow the government to send the british navy to protect english-speaking south africans? south africans, some of them do
speak english. but yes, people spoke that language in the crimea as well. and so does it mean that russia can say now the russian navy can be sent to new york with the russian speaking population there? but where do you draw the line? and i think that the europeans need to recognize the commitment to the ukraine and it should include this today, the day after tomorrow, any of them, but if you can bring albania and a survey into the european union. and you would expect the
europeans to revisit their military budgets and i was told that the uk and estonia and greece have a military budget of 2% of gdp and we have 3.5% of the debt range of gdp. and europe needs to wake up and understand that this military welfare that we receive from the united states cannot continue and in terms of the ukrainian policy after the election, a lot of folks expecting petro poroshenko to be in the first-round or first round or the second round, but there is a lot of things that petro poroshenko has to do if it is him. whoever the next president he or she needs to do. there are speculations in the media up to $100 billion where
it was either exported or laundered by the viktor yanukovich people and his family and his business associates, even if it's half of that in the country and it is a tremendous amount. economic reform, i am part of the business council cochair for that section of the u.s. policy guideline. and the prescriptions are there and this is something that the ukraine needs to do. and they made the economy less dependent on energy and to make
it more transparent, to make this more transparent, increase tolerate the fighting corruption, streamlining regulation and etc. the security forces demonstrated that they cannot control the territory of the state. this is a sign and a symptom of a failing state. if they cannot deal with the hundreds or thousands of separate tests in the eastern ukraine area led by maybe a few hundred russian operatives, it is clear that we need to be a serious reform with modernization and armed services and people who connected to moscow and took money from foreign countries with the
services. finally the ukraine will have to find the right way to bounce the language issues and culture issues with people of the east. i'm not here to give prescriptions, but the issues like language that russia exploited they need to be addressed and everyone needs to understand where people stand. and the german intelligence already leaked a couple of reports what they are doing in bulgaria. the president of the area went out and made a very alarming speech about what the russians are doing in that country and that's just the beginning. central and eastern european countries that their governments as well as focusing on the
baltic states. it is good that we have some troops, there will be 600 marines rotating in and out of eastern europe including the baltic states and that is very much a signal that a weak signal. so to deal with local separatists or people who are funded by foreign governments should be a priority vote for the security services of those countries and foreign media who has to be careful how they filter and how they analyze and understand different messages. because russia is interested in building a nuclear reaction
there and there is a lot of reports about somebody paying the environmental activists to fight against this as an alternative source of energy. the ukraine desperately needs to diversify its net energy sources, including, for example, bringing liquid natural gas and to the south of ukraine from sources other than russia. russia, turkey, some are not allowing out right now and this is a thing that the u.s. government addressed to convince our turkish nato allies to give a hand to the ukraine in a period of this crisis and a security crisis. so things like that are creative policies showing ukrainian independence combined with a
clear commitment by the new leadership that will be elected to get back on its feet and make it modern and make it transparent and make it transparent for domestic investment and then god willing we will be in a better world. thank you so much. [applause] >> thank you and over to you. >> good morning. i just wanted to give you a picture of the general elections in ukraine and the people who rely on these elections and what are their objectives and who are these people. and so as you know, the presidential elections in ukraine are going on. and the debate of the elections was decided back in february of this year and what happen now.
call them. so there are people [inaudible] and there is one individual used to be the prime minister. the latest polls show that they have a first-round of elections and they have only 10% of the votes and then she is in second place after him. also the list of the candidates of possibility are quite long. and two of them are actually
[inaudible] and these two people are quite opposite. only about 3% according to these polls. and she helped to organize all of this including the help of the hospitals to help people. and her popularity has expanded in these parts. and then we have the leader of the radical group. [inaudible] and now they have tried to get political votes.
and this includes peace will come and when you need reform, you sometimes need people to inform that to your people in the country. and this other person only has 1% of votes according to parliamentary polls. this includes the former president of the ukraine. now they seem very disappointed or lost and they don't know really who to vote for they are full of apathy and do not know
and these people travel outside to vote this sunday, they could be pursued as traders order knowing too much for ukrainians. and so they could lose their homes and be disconnected to their families area and this includes the possibility that they may not come back. and there are a lot of obstacles to this election. with all of the issues that are going to be raised, the main
have this russian or prescient team and so there was a big loss during all of this and this includes the new president to do something about this and to understand it properly and actually also be oral elections that take place in odessa and when it comes to elections, a lot of these are the center of
the projects where the voting takes ways. similar ways to vote in the ukraine for example, the way that the last elections went. and this includes determining the european stands on ukrainian individuals. there are situations that can provide us with some of this information. this includes the european far right. to these elections could actually lead to the far right partisan european parliament. and we could change this into less support for the european
union. so thank you. [applause] >> if i could just as the first question here of you, what you hear from home? from your family and your friends. how strongly people feel about the importance of this election after all of this has happened since last november with the protest and how do people feel about it? are they nervous or determined and what is the mood? [inaudible] >> well, this is some expect the elections wring more promise than the last ones are the turnaround is supposed to be the highest in the previous 10 years because people are really
wanting to take part in these elections. and usually the younger people are not as active in elections and politics. and this includes young people they were candidates and they were demanding from the candidates to publish this to make this publicly accessible. and so they hold this new person and a great new light. they hope that they will be able to provide a great future and protect us going forward. >> thank you. that sounds like a good sign.
those who have a question, please identify yourself by your name and your affiliation. yes, we have one in the back there. >> hello, i am from a japanese trading company and i would like to ask a question about fiction and what we could expect in the next phase. in this includes sanctions towards israel and other companies and there are a lot of topics on how the next phase may cover certain industries and we want to see what conditions would have to be there under
entire sanctions. can you give us some indications of how that might go next phase. >> we keep hearing from our administration and from him european governments about desperation. it does not mean that russia can keep crimea but not attacked us and ukraine, does that mean that it can continue to disrupt clandestine proxies in the ukrainian state as long as it doesn't go directly? i'm not clear about the objectives being specified. that being said, the sanctions being implemented thus far are limited. i wouldn't say if they haven't had an impact. in some places they have had an
impact. in terms of targeting some individuals in the south see interest. and i think that russia is probably trying to avoid these with these frequent decorations, this includes presumably russian business and energy sectors in beijing financial services, and other exports. the question is will we be able to get on ration with europeans involved. it has not so much on global but has titus into its economic transactions and economic networks and web.
western energy companies in western banks, we thought that we were giving for 10 years that we would sort of civilizing civilize it and make it more democratic and less imperial. and it actually had the opposite effect. even if we have it now right. but i wouldn't take it off the table. one of the things in the options that i specified is that it can wreak so much chaos as it through terrorism and sabotage and political disruption, infrastructure breakdown, blockages of and all sorts of things that they could do in a certain part of eastern ukraine and then they come on this humanitarian peacekeeping
mission to restore that, at that point we have to consider what would be the reaction of the section. so we turn it over. >> the extent to which is business does not have sanctions has been demonstrated today. angela merkel, after all the criticism, i am told by she was the guest of the big german energy company that is a major partner of russian energy. and that tells me a lot. the leader of the most powerful country in europe gave a speech about how business needs to be
expanded. and so the compromise looks like this. there will be no full-scale military invasion 20th century style into the ukraine because the russians came to a conclusion that they have the most powerful tools and laments to influence ukrainian politics. more powerful than europe and they assess that correctly that the two principal leaders will not pursue a confrontation and
incurring a prize from russia with russia's ability to pay. but at the same time i will not put it past the germans to repeat their positions back 2008 and i was not too surprised that the signals are going to moscow but they will acquiesce to this and i just gave us two days ago a presentation to a bunch of america's military officers and which ones i clearly they are going to keep this in the crimea. well, it's not a bad deal. he didn't lose any people there. you took it, he bluffed and put
some troops on the border and as i've pointed out before, it is a process. and if we don't include the sanctions, the sanctions by the u.s. alone without europe, let alone without china or japan or other principal russian trading partners, the u.s. visit by russian oil, russian oil is traded in global markets. russian gas goes to europe and then will increasingly be sold to china. so yes, if we could disrupt the banking payments in mess of the finances that we did, don't forget this is a country that
own. before ukraine, on the record not once but twice opposing the sale of this amphibious soldier and this includes the baltic sea and the pacific and it is clear that ships like that vastly increase the punch and the rapidity of deployment of expeditionary forces. the ex-commander of the russian black sea fleet said that if we had them as charlie would have done this in georgia in 2008. so the french want to include russian power production, they can go ahead with that and we
probably will express our regret or concern beyond that. >> what we are talking about is the 21st century version and it is sort of 21st century version and i think it is indicative of not only the lack of the short-term response but long-term strategy in terms of how to counter russia's new material project throughout europe and it's something that i think we have a strategy during the cold war to bring these countries to nato to expand the
european union. and i think that we lost sight and we didn't complete the picture of the whole europe into these transatlantic structures and we were distracted by other events we withdrew as many respects from europe. a worse year but will is partly to blame because of the fact that it has been answering its own internal questions and it has lots of ocean wave paid attention and hasn't really paid attention to those neighbors and those can be extremely destabilizing to the central european project. so following up with what area with a, i am just wondering but what point we would draw a red line and stick to it and in other words is it an attack on this or how would german
businesses react to a subversion of this population. this includes european union countries but i would not discount that they would be involved by the fact that they haven't been sufficiently or appropriately punished through his actions and act more boldly elsewhere. so russia may have swallowed crimea, but the mood amongst these individuals in particular is going to become increasingly anti-russian are already double amount than of the new amber being created, a jihadist in crimea and the possibility that russia would have expanded the insurgency.
and so a lot of individuals are going to become militant, some of them have been hiding in syria. i'm sure they will increase with radical islam and the fight for national independence. because this is not traditional russian land. if you look as far back as history, russia has bitten off something that will increasingly poison is. >> is really quickly, besides the middle east as fun as militants, the russians may actually gain something they didn't think about, and that is a relationship between this and
the religious orders in turkey. when push comes to shove they fight. they fought in the caucus is for 200 some years. and so there are currents and movements in the muslim world because the crimea talked about it not that long ago, there are people who are seriously thinking about it. and so because it is a small population, maybe it's not such a big deal, but they get some kind of resistance and i'm not sure if it's going to be very militant or not.
thirty to 40% of them died and they do not harbor kind thoughts about the relationship with the russians. >> we have a question over here on the right. >> excellent presentation by all three panelists. i have a question in terms of semantics in all of this. ukraine in the past two months since crimea has been talking about the propaganda war, russia and its information, whether it is worth other correspondents around the world is just as informing the truth about the situation of what is happening and rightly so as pointed out,
only two of them have any type of separatist type movements occurring in it. so how does the united states agrees in terms of optics, the new ukrainian president and the new ukrainian government after these particular elections? not so much so for the ukrainians themselves but also as a follow-up bastion to something that was asked earlier in terms of sanctions. if there are not enough, with what is enough? what should we be doing against labor putin and the russian government? >> you're absolutely right about this information and language
use. everyone talks about pro-russian forces. what does that mean there are a lot of russians and ukraine that want to be part of the united ukrainian state. so to say this is very misleading and they have been aided and abetted and glamour of whom is trying to sort of deniability aspect, i'm not responsible, they did it, and so yes, it creeps into the language not to mention this whole fascism, anti-semitism, talked about how there has been some good articles with what has happened in russia in terms of the enticement of top again and
clean now go whole range of questions that need to be conducted that we should offer to the ukrainian government. secondly, even more importantly, actually to follow this up on its own own, probably defending the nato members along russia's borders, we started this but it is not enough. the troops need to be on the ground. as the russians come and lastly my last point, it is essential if we are serious what russia is set to and if we don't want to see a continuous repeat of the shadow war may need to begin
the of putin regime we have to weaken the structure and help democratic alternative russia but also help the independence movements, the democratic sovereignty movements regions of russia that do not look to moscow as their savior. far from it they have seen the annexation of crimea as weakening federal funding for their region there is a lot of dissatisfaction along russia. external 82 can be concerned about the internal situation. democracy building is also building of a strong and democratic region that
creates a real federation and in russia. russian federation is not a federation but is centralized and authoritarian structure there is no real federation. i think this should be part of the policy. >> that was quite an answer. [laughter] >>. >> maybe after words we can talk about what the gradients would like to see with the new president and what could they signal from us? >> in terms of our support, i would be encouraging to embrace the democratic elected leader, a support with conditionality
how courageous -- the ukraine will collapse that we have seen that movie before in 2004, after that, the modernization of the us state for comprehensive political and economic reform is not an easy task. and so far maybe they are hiding something but the regular actors with the players in the political world do not strike necessarily as a great peters said economic reform. or people who can rearrange
massive bureaucracies to make them transparent and not corrupt. it is a tall task. the ukraine needs had to have a consensus as a matter of national survival. leaders could have communicated that to their ukrainian counterparts. but really at the point if ukrainians will not do this work, any amount will be wasted or stolen or misallocated. the ukrainian diaspora needs to mobilize as i have not seen that before the recent defense with a little more of that but it is in order to implement the reforms
that are necessary in the security apparatus in the military in the economic realm, and then at ukraine wasted 20 years. but there was no hard work and with the government branches that were necessary and they to push back on propaganda as neo-fascist. this is not helping the images of ukraine in europe or here. i think they're wretched narrative no question.
>> but they are doing it. >> ukrainians are not really mobilize. >> with the government and ukraine headed similar because now as part of the constitution to make can power fall. says sen authoritarian leader. so now the president has limited control of the government and as president he will control and with those other social politics
will still be controlled by the government they need to be approved. back in 2005 when the new president was elected between the president and prime minister one of the reasons to see their reform implemented that had nothing to do with political issues of who is more powerful to have more control and now with ukraine we can have a conversation pep but this society used to be a part of
something coming up next week may be to release a statement with the policies. do you think it would affect the policies against the ukraine? and could you explain how? >>. >> i am not shirt i understood exactly what you try to clarify in times of can you focus? >> with the pressure of the leaders what could affect
president putin policies in the future. >> i am not sure there is currently pressure displayed to affect the change of behavior one of the things we talk about here is mr. putin said pfizer's made a calculation, jim would cost for russia to pay for parts of ukraine and estimates are tens of billions of dollars it is better not to occupy because russia would it not be able to pay for its. but in terms of pressure short of the major disruption such as the interbank transfers the
admirers, i do not see the level of pressure that is in that area is that mr. putin and his entourage in his circle decided that this is of vital importance to russia. i have been to russia many times and have listened to the narrative by its many top levels come from the soviet system. there was no massive rejuvenation and they believe that nato is the strong organization and it calls to the russian borders they want to get ukraine into dado.
-- and nato. and to believe that the era of spring type of civil unrest is instigated by the west through facebook and twitter and the internet and that the caa invented or runs the internet which i don't think is the case. there is a lot of monitoring all parts of the world but not necessarily buy that agency. what i am saying is to have a clear idea where the pressure points on the then apply decisive pressure if you want to shoot change somebody's behavior and even then there are no guarantees. those were under sanctions
for a long time. i am not convinced it would change with a strategic commitment or a threshold states. to do with sanctions and certainly not on the level of rather weak pro-forma sanctions. >> i would just like to add the japanese prime minister raises the of the northern territories because it seems to be there are disputes that have not been resolved as being one of them. to heat up at various locations. i a agree that with sanctions we need clear objectives of nuclear
weapons with self african sanctions with apartheid i am not sure of power of the objections we what someone to work with it does not make sense to me. the alternative is to weaken the regime to help the russian people to replace with the democratic alternative other rise to face problems for many years but i don't think they are here at the state's torrey in europe or japan. long term we don't have statesmen now. in the of western capitaññgszqy. we used to during the cold war but they are a dying breed and this is what they like to exploit. >> i think we will wrap up in thank-you to the panelists for a terrific
>> the truces that the v.a. is a huge institution doing a lot of important work in not doing a very good job. everybody here has heard about the claims backlog. what people don't know is under bush you know, how we did claims? by people so individual veteran could have filed will supply that by hundreds of thousands. i remember talking to shinseki when he was first nominated he said we will convert that system to electronic at the end of five years we will have those claims down at 125 days 90 percent accuracy today they have cut the
backlog in half and on the way to fulfilling that goal. one of the national embarrassment's with a high-level of homelessness among veterans and the announcements living on the streets and since shinseki has been in office we have reduced that by 24 percent. also as a result of the wars of iraq and afghanistan we have seen a huge number of increase of lowe's coming into the v.a.. but if you talk to the average veteran who is in the v.a. system, we held a hearing last week, with the veterans' organizations of america but when you get into the system is it good quality health care? without exception there are
problems i have criticisms of shinseki after a number of years he has not been as aggressive as he should be and i hope we will deal with that but i don't think he should resign. >> i knew there was a risk of the lifestyle i decided because whether it is an illusion or not, i don't think kids, it held my concentration, stopped me and stop to the people from being boring. it would not be to prolong the conversation. if i was asked if i would do it again?yt%ñ the answer is probably yes
if i could get away with the whole thing. easy for me to say. a response for my children to here. but the truth is it would be hypocritical if i say i would not touch it because i did no.u?g1q%jájíbx46;loi i decided all of life is a wager and i will wager on this that. i cannot make it come out to any other way. [inaudible conversations]
>> welcome to the council of foreign relations meeting i am the focal issue of the next generation of jews and media company with politics powered by twitter and how that has altered change in the social media and what is playing. great to have you today we will talk about the future we have a lot to cover. but we are focused on policy, and technology how they interact with to great
people with us a lincoln professor of law culture and values joel garreau and from the new america foundation covering almost 40. covering society and culture and how things are changing in this country. also michael rogers is of former title futurist in residence. but i will ask each of them to give a quick one minute overview then to jump into the conversations then we will open to questions. first, joel garreau give me a sense when you have been working on with technology and policies. >> my area of interest is we
are at an important point in history for the first time technology is not aimed at a word for the fashion of fire, clothes, space travel increasingly they are aimed at modifying our minds, memories and personalities and if you can do all that you are the first species to take control of your own evolution but right now on our watch with radical revolution the technologies that drive this our genetics robotics information in real and not just talking about the internet. >> one of the things i talk about now having worked with the of "washington post" and
"the new york times" i have declared victory there. [laughter] i have moved on to other corporations with similar issues. it comes down to the fertilization of the world to move into a period of time that the best analogy is that lewis mumford wrote the natural history that he pointed out it happened very, very quickly to move to the city's and when we did it was the fundamental shift for several reasons. we needed new business models to propose the family groups we had. number to it took us one step away one step away of abstraction from the physical world. i think virtually station which is the creation of the virtual world running parallel to the physical
world in which we live all of the time is of the next spade step after urbanization. but it means ultimately we will become all connected all the time to the virtual world 24 hours a day consciously through a new generation of devices or unconsciously through all of the objects and with urbanization transports society and our laws and that will be the same. >>host: that is a great place choose start. talking about the internet of things that everything is connected your refrigerator and everything else to tell you how to live your life. the general question is it a good thing for society? will reach get to a point very quickly there will be a major conflict that people say we have to stop this?
said it is moving too fast or are things moving so quickly to adapt and it is coming and they will learn to live with these technologies? >> people are adopting more quickly than they used to but my clients would say it would take an entire generation to teach people to use the atm. they got the taking money out pretty quickly but putting the money into it takes about 20 years. and then matched it, i once interviewed one of the founders and what he would have done differently with online dating he said i would have invested much more earlier but he had no idea that online dating would go through something
that was pretty weird to mainstream. and finally facebook. launched the 2006 college students and within five years the fastest-growing segment on facebook was women over 55 so it is the assimilation of the adoption rate. >> that is why it is no longer cool. [laughter] wait. cool for the teenagers because their mothers are on it. so they're moving to mobile technology. [laughter] >> nothing like being funded by your mom. >> that is a cultural point. so looking at that technology to are really
looking at the new technologies that a generation just coming into adulthood that has never known life without the internet? that is a completely different thing than the 80 year-old, how does this technology change for kids today? will there be a rift between adults of all different ages and children? >> my interest is to we are and how we got that way and what makes us tick. i am not as big of a nerd is i may sound being a peer but i just walk up to is the technology didn't care about the pickier but one of the things that looks clear to me is technology moves faster than culture. everybody knows what i mean
when it is clear of the accelerating change with the robotics. if the curved accelerating change goes up like this if the response is flat like waiting for house judiciary because it is a toast, i have the optimistic view to hope of responses also come up on the second curve but in the meantime i think the reason you see more and more social weirdness is tea-party take note. [laughter] i think the ground is moving beneath our feet. if anything it is increasing. i think when it moves beneath your feet and the st. primate's looks for something solid to hang onto.
so you see buying simple narratives that sound right. all the of commentators all are offering simple narratives are probably wrong but something solid to hang onto and that is what worries me. we need to a accelerate. >>host: you use the phrase the next generation. >> even deal with venture capitalists with the 10 year a question for the fact is the millenials generation is the one that is growing up with technology.
>> >> but maybe they have more tools than people who had not grown up with this technology and it is harder for them to adapt to be around the next few decades. >> i would be happy with the employer. [laughter] i don't know if they are adapting or if they care. i just want them out of my basement. [laughter] one is your in their gold happily employed.
[laughter] and one of the things i am very worried about is what happens if this time it is different? though whole argument because the jobs were taken away because they went to this city's and blah, blah, blah. but there is loss of jobs and there is an awful lot of revolution anwr and dead people in the course and i can easily imagine. all politics is local says reporter and editor of the "washington post" them before the layoffs started there was no business model. with this happens to me
again i will start to take this personal. [laughter] i am just very cognizant of the fact the last time we had 25 percent unemployment national socialism began to look good to a lot of people but of course, so does the new deal. but this could be some pretty heavy of people starting with the young. >> what role does government play? with those technology advances replacing so many jobs and so much money put into technologies that don't necessarily hired away a of a general motors or other companies did with similar market capitalization what does the government have to do to help people have jobs in the future?
>> that is a very broad question from in, and distribution we may end up 30 years out with a class of people who have the lot of time on their hands and we don't know what to do with them. a second is to be more realistic about what jobs will continue in the future and which what i just finished working with a group that represents plumbers and electricians and heating and air-conditioning contractors. their problem is finding workers because united states focuses on everybody goes to the four year college those jobs are so easily automated or outsourced it is fictions and now look at the young lawyers partly because of the outsourcing and automation.
soda contractors want to bring a message to the parents and legislators that these are good jobs. plummer cannot be automated or outsourced. one guy said to me my son's friends all went to college with the four year degree with $40,000 in debt living at home but the one to work for me is married and buying his first house with a kid. we have to be more realistic what jobs will really be there. >> coming out of the last 15 years that this was all going to be great and there is still a bunch of people who believe fat and a lot in the u.s. government. one thing to keep track of is just about all this
change was financed by the u.s. government. he was a packager and a designer. and great don't get me wrong but every single technology in your phone was created by a the government from the touch screen from the gps, i am struck not yesterday's use by technology but they just launched a new directorate biological technologies office it is very rare to create a new director but the reason they finally did is they had so many biology programs that they finally had to create one place for it to you get all these things into one
place. the get the web site and look at what they are doing. they are very optimistic when assessing says the program of 1,000 miles accused -- molecules. with the big biotechnology lab we have creatures that eat co2 to solve the of italy east climate change in the future but the way you do that is there are 27 clinical steps to go from carbon dioxide and they all occurred in nature. so you take the 27 steps and stitched them together and
you have the crude equivalent. what darpa is working on with the living foundry's business is to create 1,000 novel molecules he said chile in the same way. and the list of what they work on is called prophecy. with biological and vulnerability which among others is meant to reverse aging. but check out the darpa web site. so with the reaction to all this is government thundered on dash funded so far. when it comes to the ethics of the technology those that are ahead of this is the navy. to give them than its of
credit. they have the still autonomous robots that do not need a human to pull the trigger. these registers that enemy ship because the navy has this problem. said they have the a hard time to communicate so they're in the forefront to create the ethical robot will they succeed? i have no idea am i glad somebody is working on it? you bet. >>. >>host: i suppose the live site does not have everything. [laughter] but in the sense of things we are creating there it is practical use for madison and science that can help
humanity that they could create molecule's they don't know what they will turn into. what role does the media have to shape opinions about these types of things? how important is there a media to shape opinion? with those cultural icons. >> we are going through a period now that the scientific journalism added is the technology you need to understand. but there are fewer and fewer places we have a big hole and i am not sure how to fill its.
that was the golden age of journalism. when you are a monopoly i made it so much money headed is the church stage relationship so much money that they did not care what we did. he would not advertise for six months the he would come back so with amazing journalism way to do whatever we wanted. probably going back to seven days the first time the inspector of genetic engineering came up which is the underpinning this and to talk about the threat and possibilities.
very thoughtfully reported that the craziness was stand down. i don't think there is an equivalent to day and we need to solve that problem. >> there has been a discussion about the size of government regulation and people say it needs to be smaller with a smaller government they don't create all of these advances and what role do they have to regulate the steve jobs' creation to do advance what the government has created? what role does government have said they are focused on that? and darpa is probably the
most advanced. >> i think this subject is doomed. if you think that culture of moves slower than innovation then comes regulation in washington. you go to these conferences to solve these people to act as if it is possible. how you govern technology? fetid is how they talk about spending five or 10 years to regulate technologies that are already five or 10 years old. i see nothing good coming out of that. i am a congenital optimist so i hope what replaces the industrial age this rating
what happens with human response? my hunch so way to do that is the bottom up type of way. the idea of top down is just not fast enough. so when i am very interested in when uc for example, do it yourself biology which is happening as a stitch stuff together for fun, i would be interested to see what kind of ethics and morals evolve a round that. i have a lot more optimism about the people who were doing it coming up with ways to make sure we don't destroy the human race.
>> and then to take the bigger role with craft sourcing and so more croats sourcing and regulation. >> it depends what you mean by regulation. >> self regulation makes me nervous because it is not the little guy. but to say for example, within the united states the internet was large -- launched by a darpa but really a was professors with darpa money that invented this thing in the late '60s to see that an e-mail went from palo alto to los angeles. i knows these guys and they said if we had known what it
would turn into we never would have built it the way we did it is unsecured and and over the next decade will be the rule of all on the internet. we were very laissez-faire with the internet and the virtual world which was a good thing for a while but now we have such powerful constituencies google, facebook interest that still do their best to keep the internet from being unregulated. that is the best thing about data retention and privacy going on in europe because they are not hindered by the enormous lobbying efforts of the united states with self regulations.
>> i think the most interesting conversations going on with biology is in the sports arena. all technologies are always adapted by where we see the greatest competition. it is not too surprising talking about human enhancement cognition cognition, memory, aging, th ough whole deal. version and 2.o humans. but where this conversation is the most thoughtful is in the sports pages asking whether barry bonds shares go around with the times on his forehead for their best of his life because he is not the same of all the people whose records they broke. we have a new once, i mean to have a new ones
conversation people just want to see spectacle. other people say is that moral? fall whole narrative behind sports is about human competition and to become more yourself. blah, blah, blah what happens if you are just a machine with the good pharmaceutical group? we have that conversation right now in the bottom-up way that is more smarter and interesting. >> may be aimed dash regulation but private a -- regulation. >> what if you mean by regulation? to decide what is okay and what is not of k and but i
will buy a ticket for and what i want to come i don't expect to see human cloning any time soon it is possible but there is been such a revulsion to it so if you count that as is regulation i am optimistic. >> we don't think about that until we see examples of what they can do. for exports is the first place it have been to. but when specifics come along i am a little optimistic. >> let's open it up and invited audience members and please wait for the microphone. please keep your questions
and comments concise to allow as many attendees as possible to speak. >> i am from the pew charitable trust. the web was also supported by the national science foundation not just darpa for commercial but the real question is to see either bottom-up for top-down regulation but there is of middle ground with the embryonic fertilization if you are familiar with that model is that is the way for the future? >> i never heard of it. >> it is mia institutional.
>> the first test-tube baby was born in britain and the british had the commission and have developed the a human embryonic fertilization and other genetic issues that is made up of the public for that is very carefully selected and largely reflects the general ethics, if you will, of the british population and has kept up very well with the science and has changed with the science and is a model that we should take a look at more in the united states >> i am with the naval postgraduate school.
i am impressed with what you are saying i grew up with parents you were way ahead of technology. the dilemma i find as human beings is j.j. is really hard. there was so wonderful article the house of rain the first thing it you lose is the easiest thing to keep going back to with a adaptation that is here. one that is terribly important is training people to tell stories. and we don't do that. that is not considered an important skill with the educational system but if you can how do they know what the alternatives are? they do worry about the mechanization in our lives
and we have to rethink what people are paid to do. people were picking up stuff on the street the other day we really need people to do that. have to find a way to give people respect to do work we would not want to do. machines would not change that but it is desperately needed. >> from the center from public integrity, could you address this question, are we headed for the dystopia inevitably and how can we avoid it if we want to? [laughter] >> i don't have a crystal
ball i don't have my jet packs maidu's scenarios would it might be like that the factory on the ground right now. you basically end up with have been and how this is the memorial scenario. it is now paying though lot into the future but the other is the mirror opposite with insane rapid change and we wipeout the human race in the next two days. that is a perfectly credible
scenario that the most easily identify with. if you say it will go to hell everybody says yes. [laughter] but the third scenario that i am reaching for but not predicting but prevail is not a middle ground between heaven and hell day are deterministic meaning they boses them what matters is how many transistors can talk to each other. prevail is its own territory because it has a fundamentally different proposition. may be but matters is how many surprising humans you could hook up and reasons for that connection so looking at the future of the human race to say it is over
for this species. 1450 then all of a sudden you have a brand new way to distribute your ideas and the results are amazing with the renaissance, enlightenment and lots of the samples and a thorough literature we have a lot of prevail stories. the question i asked myself this kid refigure runaway to accelerate the human response? the identical way the way darpa celebrates the technical challenges. a the prevail projects that is intended to do. and in that scenario, how do you know, if that prevail scenario is happening? i would guess you lindsay
the outpaced of unexpected things. what about the bay? hundreds of millions of people doing complicated things without peters. facebook? twitter? i have no idea what it is good for but if it flips out every tyrant in the middle east i am interested. >> i am from yale university. the question between technology and truce. coming from the of millenials degeneration. and maybe going to rue leukopenia and then on the other hand, of the more recent developments and the
anything over 200 words, reading and writing is declining very fast because it is simply not going to be necessary, and i think what we don't understand what that does to the thinking process and how the thinking process is formed by learning to read, and i think around 2025, 2030, we'll look back on these days when we used to look for kids with reading disabilities because we'll understand that reading is not a natural skill to begin with. now in 2025 we'll look for kid with reading abilities and say, we're going to teach you to read and write really well, just like
star athletes that why we're seeing build down jargon journalism or graphic journalism and i don't think it's a good thing. >> can i just build on that? that's a scary scenario. one of the things -- i mean, as a professional story teller, i know that storytellers have been getting the best piece of meat around the camp fire for an extremely long time, and the -- i don't expect that to change in the future because that's such a -- we're pattern-seeking story-telling moneys. that's whoa we are. rather than look up into the night sky and deal with the fact that maybe all those bright dots are random distribution. no. we come up with the most amazing stories about bears and princesses and lions and swords, and we just can't stand the possibility that is random and
we create stories instead. if that were to change, if all of a sudden we were no longer the story-telling species, that would about a pro found shift in what it means to be human and it's one that i would have a hard time writing that scenario over the next 20 or 30 or 40 years. my problem is it's getting the best piece of the meat around the camp fire, rewarding the story-tellers is the challenge, and that is where you -- i can imagine seeing a really dark next ten or 20 years before the next business between the collapse of the old business model, which has occurred already, and the rise of the new one. but to say that there is not going to be story-telling as part of the human species? in important and rich in complex ways? i don't want to think about that
scenario. i have hard time with that. >> story-telling will always exist. someone will learn hour to -- an entire novel will come out in 140 character bursts, and nike will -- >> you believe that? >> oh, yeah. and nike will decide, they have 12 million people following them, i'll pay this person to keep doing that and put an ad up for nike. not an interly new concept or model but maybe that's an area. >> thank you, gentlemen. i'm with humanity in action. your comments on unemployment in the country i found pregnant. there's a surplus of labor in the country and a row best hack -- robust state which ensnares black bodies and brown bodies, too. so, i'd love to hear your
insight on incarceration, millenials, and surplus labor in this country. thank you. >> well, you know, i think mitty says something earlier on, which is a good point. we need to do two things about finding jobs for people. one, we need to get service work more dignity, and we probably need to pay more for it, to have people have living wages. not unlike the early days of the factories and the factory work end did not make much money at all and it wasn't until the ewan afternoonization and suddenly they were the middle class, and the middle class drove the economic engine. now it's clear the service workers will be the jobs driving the economy. but not if they make seven dollars an hour.
so, incarceration, i think, is what we try to prevent, and if we really need to relook again at the nature of work in society >> if you're looking at the technology that is aimed inward at modifying what we are as humans like cognition and memory. you can imagine scenarios in which the not too does stand future we end up with three different kinds of humans. the enhances, naturals and the rest. the enhanced are the ones who embrace these technologies and for them and their children, and who every six months it's something brand new. i have some of the stuff in my pack. one that shuts off sleep. so more and more enhanced humans that jump at this. and their kids are the ones who end up being smarter and better
able to get into the best colleges and so forth and you have to decide how you feel about that. then there's the naturals. ones who do have access to these technologies but choose to not to indulge. like today's modern fundamentalists who w.h.o. eschew modern -- they don't have technology because of geography or class. that could get real ugly real fast. it's been a long time since we have seen more than one kind human walking around tame, 25 or thousands years, depending on how you read the fossil evidence. if we all of a sudden -- i wonder, you look at some of our wars right now, look at afghanistan, and look at our war fighters versus the people from
the -- who essentially haven't changed a hell of a lot since the 14th century, and you say, wow, is this the beginning? scary scenarios. >> hi. from control risks. you talk about regulation with respect to emerging technology. i wonder about safety and security beyond regulation. you mentioned the ability of mad men to wipe out the human race in two days. whether it's a mad man or somebody who makes a mistake, how do we create safety valves or law enforcement or security forces that can prevent such an accident or deliberate act from happening. >> i'm real pessimistic about police forces doing this. i'm much more optimistic
about -- mycockeye ode optimism is based on what bottom-up solutions look like. for example, if you -- in 30 years ago, if we had said that in the year 2014, every day, every second of every day, our most important computers that regulate everything from our -- everything in the world would be attacked by the most incredibly malicious and imaginative and sophisticated pieces of software, bugs and worms and everything, we would in the '70s you would have said, it's over, we're toast. so, but now in fact what has happened is that without really a hell of a lot in the way of government regulation, we have developed bottom-up responses and there are entire industries designed to scan -- i'm not saying it's perfect. i'm just saying they exist. i don't -- don't get me wrong.
i'm not suggesting any of this is a pan see ya. i'm just saying -- pan see ya. i'm a student of good enough. does everybody's credit card get stolen? sure. do we indict half the chinese military? sure. is this the perfect solution? no. but it's not the catastrophe that you would have imagined had i given you the scenario in the '70s. so, this species has a history of muddling through, and that's part of what prevailing is all about. heroic muddling through. like huckleberry finn, like exodus in the bible, those are all prevail stories, and can we imagine scenarios where we have heroic muddling through -- maybe that's what control rusk does for -- control risk does. >> let me just -- a couple of quick thoughts on regulation.
first is in the life sciences. we have even some pretty good self-regulation. just recently, for example, what to do with the smallpox virus. within the scientific community there is the roots of some self-regulation that we have seen over the years that is not a bad thing, and works. when it gets into the capitalist system, regulation -- self-regulation begins to break down. look at general motors. a bunch of engineers who knew that too heavy a key chain would cause the driver to die, right? but that never got reported because it was going to cost 18 cents more per switch to fix it. so, there's regulation but it can be overcome very easily by economics. second piece, when it comps to their the internet specifically this is is a case where we'll see much more global activity. right now it's very very desper.
some countries controlling part of the internet, the united states laissez-faire. ultimately we'll move toward some elements of a more international step of guidelines. one thing we'll see is internet passports. some ability to have a real identity thon the internet. it's astonishing that such an important thing doesn't have legal identities at this point. so, every country is working on how -- all the western democracies at least are working on how to make a legal identity, probable live we some biometric, when you enter into the virtual world we know who you are. sure, it's spoofable like a -- >> students are going to love that. >> that's why the americans are being so careful because national i.d. is a third rail, but these won't be i.d.es you have to use all the time. just the way driver's license -- but if you want to get on an airplane, it's handy to have a driver's license. so real identities on the
internet will be a big step ford. >> the most effective regulators we have are the leakers. in the last year, and now that we learn what the nsa does for a living, that made more difference than the entire regulatory apparatus of washington, dc, i would argue. >> regulators who -- i won't name names but 99% of scientist are wrong. >> and they admit it. that's part of the deal. >> my name is sarah and i wok for hewlett-packard. my question best about the i.t. industry. what can you say about the ability of the industry in terms of meeting people's needs and being ahead of the pack and where it's going and how does it fall into your vision of the future? how helpful? what deals you think? >> i think the i.t. industry is
absolutely crucial. in the sense that -- to talk about the scenarios, we are in a -- running into a lot of challenges between now and 2015, given the population increase, the inevitable, the move toward sustainability, which we're really going to need to have, and move away from the constant growth notion. i.t., the combination of the global network, smart objects, very intelligent software of the, say, ibm watson class, that is able to really look at a lot of data and come up with novel solutions to problems, enormously helpful. in terms of the whole world, i have -- i know analysts in the telecom industry who say by 2020 or 2021, absolutely everyone on the planet can have a phone if they want. which is amazing, amazing
consent. a combination of low-cost chinese hard ware and the indian business model that lets you sell local service to people who earn two dollars a day and make a profit. so, pakistan just the other day was one of the last countries to approve 3g networks. so a lot of those people by the early 20s will have smart phones and be connected to the internet. it's really going to happen. it's hard to imagine how transformative that will be. but i think i.t., along with smart approaches to biology, but biology takes a little longer. i.t. can make positive changes very, very quickly. >> in your question is imbedded the notion that information technology is a thing, a separate thing. that is somehow distinct from nano robotics, genetics, order life. i wonder. everything that we